XP vs. Acer Linpus Linux, SSD vs HDD : an appraisal.

To celebrate my 200th post, I give you my accumulated wisdom before pissing off for a while to do something different!

I have the A110L, and I run the stock Linpus Lite OS, with minimal changes: removed mplayer and media, photo master software, installed VLC, Skype, and Anthy (the Japanese IME).

The flash of inspiration re. Linpus came after a lot of frustration trying to tweak and customize it. I mean a lot of frustration. The crux of the matter is this:

Acer Linpus Lite is not an OS.

Not in the same way as Windows XP is, or Ubuntu, or even Fedora. Its not a platform to install applications on. Acer Linpus Lite is a closed system, exactly like, say, the iPhone ... with nonworking appstore. Leave it alone and it will take care of itself. Installing software equates to hacking the system, with the same inherent difficulty and risk of unintended consequences.

Taken for what it is, once you resign yourself to leaving well enough alone, Linpus Lite on the 8GB HDD makes one awesome netbook. Its small, light, and fast ... but limited to standard tasks. Acer seem to be pretty good about patches and software, so I've stopped worrying about the internals and started enjoying the finely tuned system for what it is.

The problem is most people want more - or think they want more. Windows XP has the flexibility of a real OS, but it doesn't really work on the SSD. Anyway people who want more tend to want more all over, so going with the large hard drive for the XP version was the right thing for Acer do to. To be fair the anti-netbook consequences: higher cost, lower battery life, larger size ... are minimal. So the increasingly minor role of the Linpus models on most product webpages is a fair reflection of the relative merits.

But spare a thought for Linpus, and the svelte lines of the original case design. As a coffee table PC it really is very close to perfection.

 

Y'know, that is an excellent analogy--it's similar to the iPhone or other PDA-ish or smartphone O/S's.

For someone inexperience with Linux, who wanted something relatively inexpensive to do email, browsing, and the like... it's actually quite good.

As for Japanese, I have to say, their Japanese support is excellent. Just about every application works with it. Also (and this is apparently a RH based distro thing) they seem to automagically pipe lp to paps so that one can print Japanese text documents--that is, things created in vi--without having to do any tricks.

Anyway, you're quite right, I think--think of it as a PDA-ish type O/S and you're set.
We're expecting it to be a more typical Linux. (Hope you don't mind my paraphrasing, I believe it conveys the spirit of your post.)

 

Hmmmmmm....

I think of it as fedora7 with a custom desktop. I boot to the standard xfce4 desktop, blank screen actually, and have the toolbar and the right-click menus. I've installed python, thunderbird, sunbird, firefox, and skype, and will soon install pAgenda, a python calendar app.

I find the photo capabilities fine for what it is. I got it so I could have convenient communications when I'm away from home, and so far I can't think of anything not to like about it. But'cept maybe the trackpad; but I use a small wireless mouse most of the time.

I like that it has two card slots and uses one as add-on storage. I like the keyboard. I've always liked xfce, and this seems to be a very good application of it. I like the size and I love the screen, it's perfect IMO. It's a cheap computer that does about 90% of what I need a computer to do. And I like that it's not ms, although I have a couple of business boxes that run windows, and another running puppy linux. I like the portability of the aspireone.

And I like the acer linpus desktop for inexperienced users. It seems bullet proof to me. What can possibly go wrong, short of a dead box?

Regards,

 

If the Linpus Aspire One is like a PDA, it's the most capable and expandable PDA I've ever come across. To say it's not a real OS like Windoze XP has been claimed to be, is simply nonsense, imho. With some tweaking, it can be almost anything one wants it to be and because it's a Linux box, it is more of a real OS than XP can ever hope to be. I know, this shows my Linux bias. But I came to this conclusion about Linux a long time ago and wouldn't have a toy operating system from Microsoft running on any of my many computers. I admit that the way Acer has used Linpus to lockdown some things, it can be daunting at times to get around them, but it is possible. Because it is Linux at its core, I'm sure that nothing is impossible, as Linux is the most configurable OS available today. If there are limitations with the Aspire One, it certainly doesn't come about because of the OS, but rather the limitations of the hardware. It is a "netbook" computer when all is said and done.

Cheers.

 

It's really just a choice on Acer's side to make the Linpus version of the AA1 more PDA-like. Once you bypass the easy-mode and boot directly to the XFCE desktop, it's a very nice and capable computer. the 8GB SSD is actually enough to install and run most applications you'd ever need. Additionally to the standard applications (minus the demo games, which were quickly removed), my AA1-110 has these packages installed :

- Blender : 3D modeller/raytracer (install the static package from the blender page instead of the repos version)
- Krita : Gimp/Photoshop like drawing programm
- Codeblock : C++ IDE
- Geany : better editor+Python IDE
- wxGlade and a lot of python modules
- Aircrack/Airsnort (you never know when you might need those)
- Audacity + all LDAP filters I could find : mutitrack audio editor
- skype
- vlc
- Avidemux : basic video edit + conversion tool
- Wine
- Filezilla FTP Client (I prefer it to gFtp)
- XChat : irc clienthat's
- Agave
+ the better not too grafic-intensive Linux games, as they are for longer travels and I don't want to drain the battery too fast. So Nethack/Vulture, Xmoto, lincity, openciv, pingus, Megamek, Scorched3D (okay .. quite gfx intensive , and around 10 more.

I'd like to install inkscape ... but the last time I tried it didn't really work out well, and I had to restore the system.

The funny thing : I still have free space on the SDD, despite the Audacity filters and the 1000 or so new XMoto Maps I downloaded. 1.6GB Free out of 6.4GB (yes .. I still have the swap partition). I'm receiving a 16GB HS-SD in a few days, which should be more than enough for most work. If you're not dependant on a Windows application that doesn't run in WINE, there's really no need to buy a AA1-150.

 

I always viewed the included Linpus Lite as a sort of "proof of concept" - you can give an aspire one w/ it to anyone and say, "here ya go, now go play," and they can understand how to do the basic stuff.

I found my experience w/ it to be unfulfilling, which is why I put Vista on my machine. Also, since it's such an inexpensive laptop, it's a very good learning experience. It also showed me just how much you can do w/ a computer that has no optical drive.

 

The "unfulfilling experience" is what really bugs me. Had Acer made it easier to switch to a *real* linux experience, people might have found out that they don't actually NEED XP or Vista.
As it is now, you need to be comfortable with Linux beforehand to know how to unleash the modified Linpus distribution (and even then, you can still run against walls, like I just did trying to install inkscape and gave up due to some unresolved dependencies. Skribus installed just fine). Anybody who doesn't have some prior linux experience will find the whole thing incredibly disorienting and complex .. even though there is really no reason it should be.

 

I've tried loads of operating systems on it, and would agree with this. Linpus is too restrictive, and to get things how you want, you end up having to go to extreme lengths just to get even simple things working.

I'm hoping OneLinux will be good in a couple of versions time, the beta was good, but it will hopefully be better soon.

I'm currently putting Vista back on, it was the best (most complete without too many sacrifices) that I've tried on it. I've tried Linpus, with custom desktop variations, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, XP, Vista and OneLinux.

Vista's going back on for now (wish I'd bought the 120GB one), but I shall be trying OneLinux when a future release is available. I liked the speed of Linpus, but it's too frustrating, as soon as one problem is fixed, 5 more appear. Great for the average/new user that doesn't want to customise, but not for me.

 

Acer Linpus Lite is not a real OS because you cannot easily install applications or customise the user desktop. That's not a dig at Linux, its just the way it is.

You can tweak it, but that comes with risks unless you are sufficiently skilled to be able to essentially rebuild it. By that point you aren't running Acer Linpus Lite anymore, so its a different discussion.

What I was suggesting in the original post is this:

The unfufilling experience can be avoided, not by switching OSes, but by switching the way you think about the machine. I dont mean lower your expectations, I mean change them. Stop thinking of Acer Linpus Lite as a hobbled OS, and start thinking of it as a highly capable embedded system.

 

I think the Linpus OS is ideally suited for someone new to computers, or doesn't have time, or doesn't want to play around with operating systems.... or just for occasional use. Then you don't really have those expectations to begin with. Anyone else (like most of us on these forums, I suspect), will want to do tweaking of some sort, whether it be enabling the right click menu, or sticking a new OS on.

I think your comparing it to an iPhone or something is about right. It's best used when you just leave it alone as you received it, then everything's set up 'correctly'.

 

I tend to agree with the original poster...and derivatives. The linpus is a great novelty OS. It makes the aa1 look different and approachable, but the novelty wears off quickly. I know all the Linux users say that it's perfectly customizable...but the thing is that you have to be GOOD with linux to take advantage of it, and the Linpus OS isn't directed at those advanced users. see the paradox?

Acer should have given it a full featured distro to make it more useful. I think they see the netbook as a PDA on steroids, but most people see the netbook as a neutered PC and expect it to operate to that effect. Big difference IMO.

 

I dont see why Linpus is so bad. I mean yes its not really a full functioning OS but for aao its perfect. If all you ever need out of a netbook is the ability to access the internet and use the word processor, then yes, Lipus is just as good as any. Im a ubuntu guy so Linpus is by no means a good OS compared to others but again, it does offer basic netbooking needs.

 

I imagine a lot of people feel that way, but is that feeling really justified?

First, what featrues are we missing?

- ability to freely install software
- ability to freely customize the desktop
- external VGA output is a kludge
- network doesnt work properly through proxies (only HTTP supported via Firefox)

Next, what do we get in return?

- peace of mind, closed system (the "it just works" mentality)
- simplicity
- optimised performance for the hardware, customised applictions
- a number of cross-app and hardware related "features"

As usual you can't have your cake and eat it. "full-featured" would mean a slower, more resource hungry system, and it would also mean losing a number of custom features currenly implemented.

That said, had the A1 been released 6 months later I have no doubt it would be toting Ubuntu netbook remix and a faster SSD. GIven the hardware limitations and no netbook remix, Acer probably did the best they could. Actually considering that most software coming from hardware manufacturers is complete and utter crap, Acer's work on the A1 is nothing short of amazing.

There are certainly improvements that could be made. First and formost a working mechanism to officially install new applications, even if its only a restricted list of "Acer approved" apps. This at least looks to be something Acer is planning on. Second is the customization of the desktop. People like to have their own wallpaper and their own icon layout. Its not a practical matter if which is best, its an emotional thing: it makes the machine familiar, personal. If its one thing they screwed up, it was in missing that last point.

 

I have to respectfully disagree, I don't think there's any trade-off when using a full featured OS versus the Linpus OS. Rather, there are only concessions when using the Linpus OS...and concessions without compensation are just plain bad.

I might be in a different mood if the concessions weren't such considerable usability limitations. No custom software? I didn't buy an Apple...and I honestly bought it with the expectation that I'd have the entire Fedora library of free software available to me. It is, kind of, on good days...when the stars are aligned.

The networking is probably the most crucial flaw, it's absolute junk and it seriously limits usability in most environments. It's useless for all but the very basic home network. Then there's the vga-output oversight. I'll call it an oversight because it's not really a critical usability issue. But it's still a concession with no compensation. We give up usability and get nothing in return.

I don't think there is a valid argument in the benefits of Linpus. "It just works" until you need to do something even slightly outside the scope of the original feature set. then it "just doesn't work" end of story. I wish we could argue that Linpus is a slimeline install that leaves a lot of space on the drive...but it's not. you get 3.5gb free out of the box. I installed onelinux, all of my software and 1.5gb of music and I still have 3.5gb free. Why?

Furthermore, the OS isn't actually optimized for the hardware. All of the speed comes entirely from the Xfce desktop environment, which can run on all the common distros. Demanding desktop environments like Gnome still work fine, a little sluggish at times but otherwise very usable. I like Gnome, but Xfce is just fine...kind of reminds me of windows 2000, haha.

As for custom applications...yeah, no thanks.

I hope Acer is listening, no one likes Linpus. Some people are justifying it because they're more or less stuck with it, but they don't LIKE it.

 

As you probably realized I tend to play devil's advocate, in this case perhas defending Linpus further than its really worth defending. I'm also a Linux noob, so I'm not to sure what goes on under the hood.

Here's the thing I don't get, honestly, not trying to bait you or anyone else:

Ok, say you're right. Linpus has no advantages. Why is it taking so long to get a working alternative then? Why is every effort so far to disable the Acer bits and return the system to a "normal" Linux environment so failure prone, unless you are a Linux guru?

I would have thought we would have got netbook remix, or some other linux distro, customized as a fully working .iso installer by now. As far as I know people are trying but there are x,y,z issues that remain. There are a couple of "desktop switcher" recipes out there as well, but from the comments a lot of people seem to run into problems with them.

This is what I think of as the compensation: Acer Linpus Lite does work. Features are limited, but its fast, stable and reliable. The day I see an "fully-featured" issue-free Linux alternative that is equally reliable and still boots in under 30 seconds is the day I switch my OS. I have no fanatical attachment to Linpus that's for sure, I'm just more prepared to give Acer the benefit of the doubt than others are apparently.

 

devil's advocate is a good thing, it lets you see the weakness in your views.

I just have to add that onelinux (ubuntu for the aa1) is very close to fully functional. It's still in beta and the only thing that doesn't work (as far as I can tell) is the wifi kill switch.

I have a feeling people are having so much trouble un-acer-fying linpus because acer made a huge mess of things when they were making their modifications. I'll ignore the possibility that they made it difficult on purpose...what's the sense in that?

 

Just for what it's worth--and a subjective opinion, not benchmarked.
I installed onelinux on the machine and used fluxbox. Fluxbox ran much faster on the Linpus version than it did on the onelinux version. Whether that's some sort of customization or whether I simply missed some things when configuring onelinux, I really don't know.

 

I've been a grateful Linux user for years now. So far I'm finding Linpus' GUI a little different to navigate but not difficult to use. It requires some command line work- just like most distros do. In fact it was the first thing I looked for. I also love the sub-15 second boot time.

Why is everyone crying?

It is what it is. Accept that and don't expect/treat the device like it was something a power-user would need to get work done. It's about portability and web-use. I think it does it very well.

I think it is typical for a windows user to revert back to their comfort zone while dissing a linux distro. It won't do this...it won't do that. I say in the end it is a user problem and running xp or vista won't save you. Shame on you linux users- finally we're getting working machines out there for mainstream public to try and you're already complaining.

I for one won't contaminate my nice new toy by running M$. Linpus may not be the best tasting but it certainly has a license I can accept.

 

"it's better because it's linux"...basically.

The poor usability and deficient feature set aren't exonerated by the mere fact it runs Linux. that's pretty classic linux-user mentality. The OS doesn't function as expected and in that respect Windows is the better choice. As much as the snobs knock windows, it's on 90% of computers for a reason...it's easy to use and it works; and making fun of windows users for it is probably a very good way to keep them from adopting Linux.

Linpus is another great way to keep Linux in the basement next to the D&D maps. :lol:

(fyi: I'm neither, I use whatever is best for the task at hand.)

Linpus is, indeed, what it is. But people are crabby because it should be a lot more. (not "could", "should"). There's no reason Linpus can't have full functionality...the windows version does! As far as I can tell, it's the recurrence of my arch-nemesis...the market segmentation goblin.

btw: what's with the contradiction? you blast the Windows users because they're not 1337 enough to crack the Linux...then complain about how Linux doesn't enjoy wider adoption...it's even logically connected in sequential sentences! Don't complain about low membership if it's a private club.

 

Ok some personal opinions from a linus noobie (me),
I did not expect to be able to tweak or hack the linpus operation system when I bought it so I didn't have high expectations. However, when I realise that have to search for and refer to a detailed guide just for the (should be) basic task of upgrading Firefox2 to Firefox 3 and then manually put in a shortcut to run it from the desktop, that is when I realised that this is a no-go for me.....