Parallels works....when it shouldn't

Discussion in 'MacOS' started by pablo101, Dec 27, 2008.

  1. pablo101

    pablo101

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    This is very very strange. The Intel Atom CPU specifically does NOT have intels virtualisation (vt-x) unlike intel core/core 2/core2 duo etc.... This means that Vmware and Parallels can not run. As you will find out if you try to install Parallels v4 it will tell you and same with VmWare 2.... Although i am currently installing windows xp pro with Parallels v3 which installed for a reason i don't know. It also asked me would i like to turn on Vt-x when i started the xp installation. I clicked yes, even though technically it can't because it isn't part of this processor. I shall let you know if it works, installs and starts windows xp.... Very strange indeed...

    I am using Acer Aspire One A150 with MacOs X 10.5.5 with voodoo kernel 9.5.0.
     
    pablo101, Dec 27, 2008
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  2. pablo101

    dskid807

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    VT -X is just hardware virtualistion. It helps vmware and parallels run. They shoudlnt be dependant on it because I have had them run on hardware without VT-X etc. It speeds up virtual machines but they run without it.
     
    dskid807, Dec 28, 2008
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  3. pablo101

    planetperki

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    if you get parallels to work with no kind of hang ups... give me a shout! this would be exactly what i am looking for :D

    thanks
     
    planetperki, Dec 30, 2008
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  4. pablo101

    nmesisca

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    Hardware and software virtualization are separate from each other. Atom can only use software virt. but this does not impair your ability to run VMWare etc.
     
    nmesisca, Dec 30, 2008
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  5. pablo101

    pablo101

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    Actually it does.

    It is IMPOSSIBLE to run Parallels v4 or Vmware fusion v2. I mean that. They ONLY run with hardware vt-x support. But i have discovered up to Vmware fusion v 1.1.2 and parallels v3 they don't have compulsory hardware vt-x needed. So it runs without it.

    I am successfully using vmware v1.1.2 as it is faster than parallels 3. good luck everyone
     
    pablo101, Dec 31, 2008
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  6. pablo101

    planetperki

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    AWESOME :D will give it a go in a bit see how it goes on! Cheers!
     
    planetperki, Jan 1, 2009
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  7. pablo101

    eddieitman

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    Have you considered running virtualbox?
     
    eddieitman, Jan 1, 2009
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  8. pablo101

    pablo101

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    No, i have no need to, i have heard that vmware is faster than virtualbox, although virtualbox is free and good for use. It *should* work as i have checked it on wikipedia and i quote "VirtualBox supports Intel's hardware virtualization VT-x and has support for AMD's AMD-V, but does not use either of them by default.[11]" So to me it sounds like it doesn't need VT-x to run...
     
    pablo101, Jan 2, 2009
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  9. pablo101

    planetperki

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    i installed the VmWare 1.1.2 and it back fired royally... :cry:

    i had to boot into OSX using safe mode (as this was the only way in) and then delete VmWare to be able to boot into leopard again with safe mode? :? (otherwise i just got a blue screen and nothing happened?)

    did i do something wrong or am i just being a bit newbish? :?:
     
    planetperki, Jan 5, 2009
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  10. pablo101

    pink

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    VirtualBox can use VT-x and AMD-V, but doesn't need them.
    So what's the difference between that, and a version of Parallels that doesn't use them?
    Then, even if you had a cpu with either, how do we know that OSX86 ( != MacOS-X)
    can pass that functionality thru to an app or VM that needs it?
    Questions, questions :?

    I am using VirtualBox, and it has a major interface bug in that it expects
    removable media should at all times be bolted to the mainframe...

    Whatever you use, an external monitor is almost essential, which
    brings further interesting artifacts....
     
    pink, Jan 5, 2009
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  11. pablo101

    pablo101

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    Planetperki which os are you using and which kernel?

    You have to install the voodoo kernel and i am using os 10.5.5 ( though any 10.5.6 should be ok as well ) It doesn't work without the voodoo kernel mate
     
    pablo101, Jan 6, 2009
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  12. pablo101

    planetperki

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    i'm running 10.5.5 leopard (Kalyway Install) and Voodoo kernel... its probably some kind of problem on my side (i am pretty new to this) but i installed it straight through no problem until it got to about 2/3 and then the 'RESTART SCREEN OF DOOM' :D popped up and i couldn't boot in unless i used safe mode...

    any ideas?
     
    planetperki, Jan 6, 2009
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  13. pablo101

    pablo101

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    oooh... Well refused to boot because without all the extensions installed there would be problems....

    download Pacifist, it is an application installer: http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/6812/pacifist

    Then drag the vmware installer onto it. Use that to install the files. You might have to right-click on the vmware package, show contents and then find the installer file to drag onto pacifist. It depends, i can't remember exactly. Let me know how you get on.
     
    pablo101, Jan 6, 2009
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  14. pablo101

    DBCohen

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    Pablo, I am afraid this is incorrect. While I haven't tried Parallels, I have had VMWare Fusion 2.0 working extremely well on an MSI Wind set up with OS X - and all of these netbooks share the same processor, the Intel Atom N270.

    Your issues with Fusion 2.0 must stem from either a problem with the configuration of your individual system, or something else in the architecture of the Aspire One related to how the OS X installation talks to it.

    It is absolutely nothing to do with VT-X support. For a virtualisation software supplier to tie their product so closely to a single feature set of the x86 architecture would be madness, given how confusing the chip branding and variations are nowadays.
     
    DBCohen, Jan 7, 2009
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  15. pablo101

    pablo101

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    It isn't.... VT-x is present on all core processors etc. It is a standard addition to all their chips now. Hardly varying at all tbh. If you search about the subject it is true. I don't know why it worked on your msi wind. It shouldn't have. In console logs it specifically states about the missing vt-x...
     
    pablo101, Jan 8, 2009
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  16. pablo101

    DBCohen

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    Pablo,

    I did discuss the particular topic of processor support with VMWare at Macworld Expo last year. They reassured me that their OS X version has common underlying code support with the Windows desktop versions, and are capable of running (with various performance levels) on EVERY chip Intel has ever produced or is currently in their roadmap.

    A quick search on the VMWare forums reveals this from a VMWare representative, in a conversation about when VT-x is used by default in Fusion:

    "The following applies only to Fusion 2.0.1.

    * VT-x is preferred for all 64-bit guests. (BT is not supported for 64-bit guests.)
    * VT-x is preferred for Mac OS X, OS/2, SCO UnixWare and SCO OpenServer guests.
    * For CPUs with FlexPriority or EPT, VT-x is preferred for all 32-bit Windows guests except Windows NT and Windows 2000.
    * For family 6 model 17H and later CPUs with FlexPriority or CPUs with EPT, VT-x is preferred for all 32-bit Linux and 32-bit FreeBSD guests.
    * BT is preferred for all other guests."

    See - preferred, not mandatory. BT stands for Binary Translation, which is the original execution engine developed for the virtual machine architecture before VT-x was conceived. VMWare is fully backwardly compatible and you are misunderstanding the topic.

    If you have futzed with the kernel on your implementation of OS ,. I suspect that is why you are having problems. I don't know enough about OS X on the A110/A150 to know whether you HAVE to futz the kernel to get a working install, but at least 50 hours of experience with Fusion 2 under OS X on an Intel Atom N270 tells me it works just fine from the VMWare end.

    David.
     
    DBCohen, Jan 8, 2009
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  17. pablo101

    pink

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    You don't HAVE to futz the kernel per se to get a working install, but...
    Device drivers are not compiled into the kernel like linux, but are extensions,
    loaded at boot time for hardware, and persistent protocol handlers,
    un/loaded dynamically for some removable media, network devices, and
    application specific protocols. A few special applications like VMs, and
    video capture, to name just 2, need quite specific hardware access,
    and I observe that kext hackers for specific devices sometimes lose sight
    of the wider picture, like what effect their kext may have when loaded
    on the whole OS <-> environment interface. OSX86 is a roll-your-own
    scene: You want a tight hardware spec, you build it. If you buy an Aspire One
    you take whatever came off the line that week, and if that came off the line
    running MSWord and IE Acer aren't gonna be too worried about anything else.

    VMware can assure us that their OSX version has common underlying code support
    with the Windows desktop versions, but they're in it for the money, so why
    would they waste their time compiling and debugging the OS-X version for a
    chipset that Cupertino doesn't use? </rant>
    Sorry, I feel better now ;)
     
    pink, Jan 8, 2009
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  18. pablo101

    DBCohen

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    Well, I hope you found the rant cathartic, Pink - but it completely fails to answer two vital questions:

    1) Why would VMware engineers lie to me about what it supports when I specifically asked them?
    2) Why does it work perfectly fine on other N270 processored-machines under OSX, such as the MSI Wind - if, as asserted so boldy by Pablo, the N270 does not have the hardware extensions that both you and he seem to be convinced are a REQUIREMENT for Fusion 2.0 to run?

    Look, frankly you can believe what you want. If people need to think that Harry Potter had to wave his wand over my machine for Fusion 2.0 to work, it really doesn't bother me. But chaps should not misread a couple of logfiles and technotes and then start stating "facts" as gospel about deep engineering issues to other users - it does not serve the community to be spreading misinformation, however well intentioned.

    No doubt that'll start the ranting again....
     
    DBCohen, Jan 12, 2009
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  19. pablo101

    pablo101

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    I've read this with interest. No need for anyone to get personal.

    But i will point out one thing.......Try and install Vmware 2.0 or Parallels 4.0 and it won't let you install and comes up with an error that hardware virtualization hasn't been detected. IT doesn't show them errors in vmware 1.x or Parallels 3.0 ..... so think what you will. The developers didn't put that error message in and halt the installation if they support it now do they?
     
    pablo101, Jan 12, 2009
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  20. pablo101

    DBCohen

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    Nothing personal in it, Pablo.

    However - look at it logically. We have both tried to install and run Fusion 2.0, on two similar hardware platforms - you on an AAO, me on an MSI Wind. It does not work for you, but it does for me. In that circumstance, how can it possibly be correct that one of the things that is exactly the same between the two machines - the processor - is the cause of the problem?

    Now you have mentioned the exact problem you are seeing, it brings to mind a bug report I remember seeing in the OSx86 forums:

    Naturally, I presume you tried the latest version 2.0.1? And you removed any previous virtualisation products and rebooted before trying to install Fusion 2.0.1? All of these things are potential barriers to getting a working VMWare installation. All you have to do is work the problem.

    David.
     
    DBCohen, Jan 12, 2009
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